Videoconference with Bhagavan 29 Nov 2009 in OSAKA JAPAN (15:30-16:00)

Question::
Bhagavan, you mentioned that you would like to eliminate hierarchy.
What would be the role of the country coordinators from now on?

The coordinators currently have tremendous authority, which means they also have the power to stop the healthy expansion of the movement.
Do you believe they should continue to exist as corporate enterprises?

The simple fact is that we would all like to feel much closer to Oneness University.
What do you recommend as the most effective system of communication between Japan and Oneness University?

Answer::
In Oneness, there is no spiritual hierarchy, unlike in other organized religions. It is simply between Bhagavan and the people. There is no one in between.

The national coordinators have no spiritual role. They are merely contact points. In any country, if the people are not happy with their coordinators, national or local, if they are not happy with them, they can form groups of 25 people and directly connect with the Oneness University. They can completely bypass their coordinators if they are not happy with them, but the only requirement is, they should be a minimum of 25 people. As a group they can have direct access to the Oneness University.

The expansion of the movement and the development of the people is in the hands of these groups. They need not come under the framework of any corporate organization. Corporate organizations and spirituality do not go well together.

Question::
As a deeksha giver, I feel very disappointed by the recent developments and by your statement.
From a practical perspective, organizations have an obligation to explain their actions to society in the event of a problem, and it would require more than a mere statement of organizational structure change to explain this situation satisfactorily.
Your statement implies that some funds were misused, and many people have actually seen how Dasas abroad had some exorbitant expenses.
Are you aware of this, and can you explain where you think the responsibility would lie in the event that these statements were true?

Answer::
The dasas are monks. They have taken some vows and they are supposed to follow those vows. I have been strictly--- I and Amma have been trying to strictly enforce those vows. But we have found repeatedly a violation of these vows and the following of a lifestyle which is not in accordance with what a monk should be like.
THis is based on people from all over the world, giving complaints to me.
While I do not have concrete evidence as to misuse of funds, what i am against is the pursuit of money. What I maintain is, the courses must be made free. And charges should not be exorbitant. And people must be taught to conduct programs in their own countries. So I'm against money. That's my basic thing, because this phenomenon must explode all over the world. Money and courses hamper it. We do not need so much money. And I believe money will corrupt. So what I am against is money. That is all. But I do not have evidence as to what they have done with the money, but I have been receiving complaints from people. I do not have concrete evidence as to misuse of funds. But I am against the collection of funds itself. That is my stand.

Question::
We heard your statement.
We had been told that the three senior guides (acharyas) are in the highest states of consciousness in the history of humanity.
We can not comprehend how a difference in ideology between such people and Amma Bhagavan could result in the splitting of the organizations.

Sri Krishnaji's statement claims this is merely a difference in ideology, but was there not a less extreme solution to the situation?
Can you tell us more about why and how this separation took place?

We want to hear what AmmaBhagavan really wants to say. 

Answer::
Basically, not only the three senior guides, there are lot of other guides here, a lot of people around the general public who are in a very high state of consciousness. Now, we must make a difference here. Being in a high state of consciousness is one thing, being enlightened is something else. The state of consciousness can come and go. Now for example, you can be in a very high state of consciousness in the morning, where you see that you are the dog. You can hug the dog, you could kiss the dog. In the evening, you could lose the state and the same dog you could give it a big kick. So states fluctuate. So the states they've had, a lot of other dasas here have had very great states. There are a lot in the general public who are in very very great states. The states actually mean nothing unless it translates itself into enlightenment. Enlightenment is a permanent thing, irreversible, where you become a good human being. There's no conflict inside you, there's no craving inside you, there's love and kindness inside you. And there's the absence of conflict. This is a permanent thing. But a state where you feel one with the tree, one with the dog, one with everybody, these states come and go, as the kundalini rises up, and comes down. So that is no criteria at all. So these people were in very high states, but we do not why or what happened, it came down.

So the next part of the question, we have this problem with the dasas who went overseas. Not with Indian dasas. And we had this problem only with those who conduct elite programs. Now my idea was to withdraw them all back into India, and focus on 2012. They were not willing to come back. That was one main reason. The other is, I did not want these big programs and big money. I said, we have to plan how to fade away. How to dissolve Oneness. But on the other hand, here they are planning the big LIOs, they are thinking of big big programs and lots of money, which according to me would only destroy us. So we can not go down a destructive path. Mine is a path of dissolution, to dissolve Oneness. And then, they talk of an ideological difference. Mine is 2012. We can't make compromises on 2012. We can not make compromise in our connection to the divine. We are harnessing divine energies, like solar energy or wind energy for transforming human problems. So we can not disconnect the divine. We can not disconnect grace. We can not disconnect miracles. So we can not disconnect the blessing. This is our stand.

They have no interest in 2012, nothing to do with the divine, nothing to do with the deeksha, nothing to do with miracles, it's all completely different. They believe that with that kind of approach, without spirituality, they can spread all over the world very very fast, and probably make big money. But that's not our work. Our work is all about bringing divine into human life by 2012. These were the fundamental differences. Mine was to dissolve things slowly. To become smaller and smaller, and in 2014 to disappear.

In hinduism you can see, nobody knows who the founders are. They give away their teachings and their names are completely erased. So we want to go that way because they'll become cults otherwise. They were not prepared to dissolve. And I told them 2011 they have GOT to come back to India 2012 the work is over, 2014 we dissolve. They did not want to dissolve. So these are the main differences, and therefore they found that they can not work with me anymore.

So now they have got their own organization, they are on their own. I have nothing to do with them, they have nothing to do with me. At a personal level when we did meet, of course we hugged eachother, they kissed me, all that is there. Personally level, things are OK. But then from the work point of view, it is totally different. That much I can share with you now, maybe as we go along we could talk later.

Question::
Could you please send us a deeksha for one week?

Answer::
I would be very happy to do that. I send my blessing to all the blessing givers, and all those people who went to those courses. I would most certainly do it, until as long as you want it.

Thank you so much. I would welcome you to come to India and become trainers soon. Because unfortunately in Japan there's only 1 trainer. So we need a lot more trainers for Japan. So we are waiting for you, and we would like to have more programs like this. My interacting with you on spiritual issues is what we call level 3. So we can together meditate, and we can discuss, and we can move very very fast. I have always maintained that Japan would be extremely fast, but for some reasons it has become slow. But I believe it will regain the lost time, because it has a very very important role to play in the far east. So my blessings, we shall now move into meditation.

Oneness is a combination of psychology and spirituality. Psychology as expressed through the teachings, plus spirituality. If there is no proper combination, then for some people the deeksha will not work. Your heart may not flower, you may not get that connection, your relationships may not be set right. It is only in the perfect fusion of psychology and spirituality that the deeksha delivers the best results.

If this is not happening, then we must train the trainers in Japan to help you with it. I understand there's only one trainer in Japan, but Japan needs a lot more of our trainers, and if we could train them, they should be able to help you in fusing psychology with spirituality, thus helping you.

Question:
What do we do to become trainers?

Answer:
While other countries have many trainers, it is somewhat unfortunate that in Japan, with so many blessing givers, I believe there's only one trainer. We will need at least I think 20 trainers for Japan. So anyone who wants to be a trainer, he must send in an application here, with 25 blessing givers supporting that application. In which case he can come to India. It will be a 10 day training process. After that, he goes back to Japan, he conducts his course, and he directly initiates people into becoming blessing givers.

Japanese people need not have to come to India or go to Fiji, or anywhere to become blessing givers. They could become blessing givers in their own countries.
Like for example, from December 3rd, after sunrise, all trainers in other countries of the world would themselves be initiating people into becoming blessing givers. That's what is going to be happening all over the world, but in Japan there's only one trainer. That becomes difficult. So since we want to speed up the process for 2012, we need at least a minimum of 20 trainers for Japan, so please send them to India, with 25 people signing / recommending their case. We'll train them up in 10 days and send them back to Japan and they'll initiate people into becoming blessing givers.
The 10 Day course, there will be no course fee. It is completely free. The course is, there's no course charges at all. We'd only be charging for food, accommodation, laundry, and internal transport. All processes in India will be completely free. So please act fast because time is running out. Our mission is all about 2012. We are losing valuable time, so I request you to quickly send trainers to India.

Question:
What are the courses which are happening in the Oneness University?

Answer:
The courses we are now offering is Level 1, and level 2. This will continue for some more time, and then it will be faded out. All these courses must be conducted by the Japanese themselves in Japan. That is the whole idea. We are conducting the trainer's course. That alone will continue in India, where we'll be training the trainers. All other courses, the Japanese must do it in their own country on their own. That is the training we'll be providing.

Question:
What if the Japanese people want to see you Bhagavan, what should we do.
When can we see you.

Answer:
You could start coming in from February, 2010. So three or four days in a week I'll be setting aside some time for meeting people, so it'll not be on a one to one basis. That time, I'll be meeting people who have come down to India, there'll be a group of people. You can join the group. You can question me there, and you can have dialogues with me and I'll also be meditating along with you. So this will happen about three days a week, from the month of February 2010.

So, the questions are over. Can I speak for a few moments?

So this Oneness is all about 2012.
Oneness is a phenomenon. It's a phenomenon which took birth in 1989, which is going to fulfill itself in the year 2012. The time has come the phenomenon has been held back for so many years, the time has come where we can no more hold back the phenomenon, nor should we hold back the phenomenon.

What is holding back the phenomenon is, on the one hand courses, on the other hand money. We want to cut these two chains so that the phenomenon can break loose and affect the world.

In 1989, the energies shifted. Many strange things happened in the world at that time. As all of you know, the Berlin wall came down, communism faded away, we had that incident in Tienanmen Square. We had a lot of other things which happened in the world in 1989, which are still affecting the world. This phenomenon was born in the year 1989, when that energy shift happened.
Similarly, in 2012, there's going to be a huge energy shift, brought about by nature. So all people can make use of the energy shift. Education can make use of it, politicians can make use of it, economists can make use of it, industries can make use of it for coming up with new products, so all these things could happen in 2012. Spiritual people can make us of it. We are spiritual people and we also can make use of it. And what is it we want to do? We want to bring about the end of alienation between man and man. First of all there's loneliness inside man. We want to destroy that loneliness. There is no sense of connectedness between man and man. Husband and wife there's no connection. Children and parents there's no connection. Between friend and friend there's no connection. There's no connection between human being and human being. We want to bring about that connection, which we call Oneness. That is the vision of 2012.

We have only 2 more years left. 2010 and 2011. So since we have lost some time, we have to go very very fast, so my request to you is that we quickly decentralize, we produce lots of blessing givers, by the end of 2011. In two years' time we have to produce a large number of blessing givers and in 2012 we must form groups of blessing givers all over Japan. Small groups, medium sized groups, big groups, in villages, cities, towns, wherever you want, they must be created. And in 2012 in January, we will teach you a new technique, whereby these groups will be giving blessings to eachother. And as you give blessings to eachother, their levels of consciousness would go up. Now, in case you are a Christian, you will discover Christ consciousness. A buddhist, buddha consciousness. A hindu, hindu consciousness. A muslim, an islamic consciousness. They'll all be very very different. But they will not be the same, but there will be Oneness. A muslim discovering his state, a Christian discovering his state, though they are different, they will feel One. There will be Oneness. That is the Oneness we are trying to produce in 2012. So what is critical is the forming of these groups, across Japan, and then they giving the deekshas to themselves, starting January 2012. The next thing is my being able to interact with you on Skype like this. My interacting with you is what is called Level 3. When we take up spiritual questions, that is level 3. So my interaction with you and my meditating with you is level 3. So we'll go on doing this until 2012, of course we'll start it now itself, and in January maybe we'll have 4 such meetings, in February, 6, it would be increasing, and in the month of December, every day we will meet. For the 31 days we will meet. That is the final thing. At that time, you giving deekshas to eachother is the process. You will move into higher states, and along with that the world also undergoes a change in perception. The new age is all about change of perception. People's perception will be changed. That brings about the new age. Once that is done, our work is over. That is, we in the oneness headquarters here, we want to fade away. If we continue to remain, we will become a cult. We do not want to become a cult, we'll destroy the work. So Oneness is a living thing. It is not a concept. It is not a belief. It's a living experience which will live in the hearts of people and will continue to live. There's no more anything for us, so we want to fade away. These are our plans.

So we request you to help us out in helping the human situation. Because as all of you know, the human situation is very very bad. So we need to undergo change of perception by moving into higher levels of consciousness. All problems we face today at the individual level and the collective level is because you are functioning from a lower level of consciousness. If we manage to move into higher levels of consciousness, not only individual problems but collective problems between nations and all over the planet, everything will be solved. So unless we all work together, I by myself can not do anything. Unless we all work together as one team in Oneness we can not achieve this. This is my request to you.